Delicious FruitCrimson Needle 2.5
Creators: Kale, Thenadertwo, Anuj071, kadykunde, egg, Patrickgh3, Thenewgeezer, Zero-G, Gwiz609
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by NightShark115
38 Reviews:
PlutoTheThing
This review is based on completing all of the content in the game that is currently known about. The difficulty rating for the third ending was 86/100.
Crimson Needle 2.5 is one of the most anticipated fangame releases of all time, it’s an entry in one of the most iconic fangame series of all time, years after its last installment. Even if it was marketed as “CN2 in studio” I think most people had a feeling the game was more than that, how much more was of course, entirely unclear. It’s really hard to break down everything about this game so I’ll split this review into 4 sections. There are massive spoilers throughout this entire review, I would highly recommend playing the game before looking at what I have to say about it.
Part 1: The 100 Floors
This is the most surface level section of the game, it’s the part that realistically was guaranteed to exist. Personally speaking I went into this game with absolutely no expectations so this was really the only thing I was anticipating. It shares a lot of CN2 DNA which is probably not a surprise, but I think it does show a lot about how much Kale has evolved as a maker. It’s no secret that games Kale made post-CN2 were pretty different as in general, gimmicks become a lot more integral to his style. In that regard you can definitely say CN2 is a relatively safe game and likewise this adaptation of it is somewhat reeled in compared to what you may expect if you viewed this game as a CN3 sequel going in. With that being said I think this section does a lot to use what it’s working with as a vessel to create something new, and in that regard it succeeds. A lot of parts, especially early on, are pretty similar to CN2 screens but the further you go I think the more flair is added and at times, some screens are entirely changed to be something far more interesting. One part that especially stood out for instance was 85-87, which is more focused on cycles and stuff and is completely unlike anything in the base game. It was really surprising but super fun. In general the quality of the needle feels much higher, the game just feels nicer to play because there’s many more distinct rooms, neutralizing the weakest point of CN2 for me, which is how much of it blends together. It may be less showy than other needle games or even other parts of this game but it does the job it’s trying to do incredibly well and is some really high quality platforming. I would be remiss to not mention floor 100, the spectacle of this floor is fantastic, the visuals of course are amazing, especially the background, and the needle itself is great. It’s a similar concept to CN3 floor 100 but a bit more explicit in taking from other parts of the game. It does a great job at being a conclusion to this part and the extra life mechanic is a really nice idea for a save this long to prevent it from being too much of a grind, something I think this game in particular benefits from. This section is great, super well put together, demonstrates how someone can evolve as a maker beautifully, and was also less than 8% of my playtime.
Part 2: The Guest Stages
The other three Crimson Needle games are as good as over once floor 100 is, at most there’s some minor bonus things you can do, but nothing significant compared to the scope of the main game. This game provides a first for basically any floor game, where the initial 100 floors are basically just the prologue. Throughout the game you can find some oddities, weird things that stand out, rooms that seem to allude to something, stuff like that. If you look deeper into these things you might eventually find where they lead and uncover a very shocking fact. While the main game is very much a complete game in its own right, in many ways it’s just the foundation for the most insane secret hunt I’ve ever seen in a fangame. The reasons for this are plentiful, one of the biggest being the sheer size of it. Every single stage, marked by the varying tilesets every 3 screens, is home to a secret somewhere, many of which also contain a hint for something, sometimes for an entire other stage. That’s 33 secrets, many of which you’d likely just glaze over on a first play because the way things are hidden is so clever. There’s such a nice variety of secrets, many of which require the player to do a challenge like go through a screen while constantly bonking on ceilings, or always turning around when touching a wall, stuff like this is especially impressive to me because of the way rooms can be designed to be completable with stipulations like this, but still feeling entirely natural to play normally. Some of the solutions are just so cool and clever, and just the process of entering stages feels great when combined with some of the phenomenal transitions between stage and secret, a minor element of the game which still feels like so much soul was put into it. The whole secret hunting part of this game is amazingly well thought out, the community experience of putting things together was something truly special to behold, and this is all just the set up for the meat of this section of the game.
Guest stages inherently are an inconsistent thing in fangames, it’s definitely cool to see a group of makers get together on a game, but often times a guest stage is not that maker’s best work, and I think the key reasoning behind this is the fact that a guest area is just that, an area, a stage. It’s hard for anyone to represent their full creative potential when limited to just a small section of a game, oftentimes entirely separated from the rest of the game. I think the beauty of CN2.5’s guest stages is that instead of fighting this, they embrace it. The guest stages sort of create their own ecosystem within them, where the makers make basically whatever they want, leading to an incredibly diverse array of stages in terms of style, size, and gameplay. A lot of these stages feel like their own games, notable instances of this are things like Chatran, Qwylwryght, Synthasmagoria and of course Cherry Treehouse. These stages contain their own stages within themselves, sometimes their own stories, and very distinct gameplay. It’s honestly amazing to witness, it truly feels as if within this 100 floor game is a bunch of sub-games hidden beneath the surface, leading to an incredibly varied and lengthy experience to play them all. I enjoyed almost all of these stages, but there are definitely ones that were particularly amazing.
Many guest areas are notable because of their extremely high quality platforming, stuff like Kale, TheNaderTwo, LemonGH, RandomErik, TheJPEGDemon, Verve, Zephyr, EchoMask, Chatran, among others contain really clever gimmicks, pathing, things that you’d probably expect from a high quality needle game, just executed to a very high standard. Some like LAWatson or Vormanax stand out because they contain some unique gameplay ideas like a minigame or an avoidance which slowly gets easier as you play. There’s a few guest areas that really resonated with me in particular, not all of them were my absolute favorites but I really respected what they were doing and thought they were extremely impressive. YaBoiMarcAntony and Egg are really awesome needle stages with some really amazing atmospheres. I really enjoy how the audio grows louder or silent throughout the first stage of Marc’s, and the lightning section at the end of Egg’s stage really stood out to me. PlasmaNapkin also has a really cool gimmicky stage based on momentum puzzle platforming, it doesn’t always feel the best to play for me but it has a lot of cool saves and I generally had a good time. Synthasmagoria’s stage is incredibly well put together, it’s one of the most unique things I’ve seen in a fangame and there’s so many incredible set pieces, a great sense of exploration permeates this area and it feels so unnerving and mysterious. Qwylwryght’s stage is truly a treat, unbelievably clever in some places with a great sense of humor while still having a lot of thought-provoking and intriguing moments. The tetris save was a highlight for the entire game for me. Last thing I want to mention is the Cherry Treehouse stage, and I think in many ways it speaks for itself. Out of this world visuals, great gameplay with a modified movement system allowing for some unique platforming and tons of variety with gimmicks, traps, cycles, anything you could ask for, and of course the bosses are awesome to see. I was especially happy to see the crimson bat demon here, but all the bosses were really fun and the final one is just so damn cool. It’s safe to say the guest stages are absolutely incredible, such a diverse maker list and it really feels like everyone brought their A-game to help make this something special.
If you get through all 32 guest stages, you aren’t quite done with this section. There’s the final sequence, a final secret that leads to a mural which transitions to the final boss of the game. The fight is split into two phases, and it’s better than anything I could have ever imagined. The first phase is kind of like an evolution of the crimson style of boss, it’s got the general structure of something like the CN2 final boss, but it contains much more involved mechanics requiring you to develop an understanding of both what is going on and how to handle them. Developing a strategy for this fight was extremely satisfying and it’s got so many cool little things to keep you on your toes and make the fight as fun and interesting as possible. Phase 2 is more straight-forward but is such an amazing “finale.” A five part fight against each of the main crimson demons, ending with a tense face-off against the skull the green demon wears. The animations the demons have are fantastic and give them so much life, especially when combined with attacks that embody their origin. The whole concept of the fight is that as the demons die, they show up in future phases to interfere and support the current one you are fighting, and this is a great idea and leads to some creative moments, especially interactions with yellow’s thunder combined with blue’s water. This fight does an amazing job at concluding things, especially as afterwards you get a truly amazing credits sequence, complete with a great song and really nice art to represent each maker. I also adore the room after the credits, thematically it’s probably in the top 5 rooms in the game for me. I couldn’t really explain why I like it so much, the combination of songs, visuals, and context just create this special energy that I haven’t really seen elsewhere. I wouldn’t really have any other place to mention it so I feel I should here. If the game ended here, I don’t think anyone could possibly complain about that. The game would have already provided way more content than anyone could possibly imagine. The makers have already gone so far beyond what you would expect from a sequel to a series of 100 floor games. This makes the fact that the game is still far from over that much more shocking when you reach this point.
Part 3: Finding Closure
After the second sequence of credits, you get to play the guest stages freely, officially titled the Communion stages. If you enter the menu and look towards the end, there’s one stage you definitely didn’t wouldn’t expect, John 10:9. If you look this phrase up online, you’ll find a bible verse that begins by saying “I am the gate.” In a lot of ways, this chapter is where the game comes into its own gameplay wise. This is not to say the gameplay is bad before this, at this point the game was already amazing, however it feels like the game itself hasn’t gotten the chance to show what it can truly be, unbounded by restrictions of being built off cn2 or guest stage content which inherently is created outside the game. The final section is Crimson Needle 2.5 in its purest form. The stage starts with a reminder of how this journey began in the first place, the dog, Blue, which you’ve been searching for the whole time, and has clearly passed away. At this point the crimson demons are defeated, and as such this is kind of the one unresolved plot point in the game. The first thing I noticed gameplay wise is that this section immediately feels a lot more like Crimson Needle 3, some places very blatantly when you see the nerfed yet extended floor 100. The grand reveal comes a little bit in, when you reach a sanctuary which causes CN3 Floor 31 teleporters to spawn, along with the mind-breaking realization that even after this insane amount of content, there is still so much left to do and see.
The premise of this section is something that would make a fantastic needle game in its own right, being at the end of such a massive adventure is extremely absurd though. It’s similar to Floor 31, but with a greater emphasis on progression throughout, as you can do things that unlock more paths for you to go down. I absolutely love this, there’s very few things in gaming as satisfying as unlocking new areas to go in this labyrinth, a feeling only made more powerful by everything else about the section. For one the atmosphere here is unparalleled, in large part due to how it differs from what’s before it. Sections with more standard, familiar tilesets, guest stages which in some ways make the world feel populated by virtue of having multiple people making the content you play, along with many of them being pretty vibrant (although very far from all), it’s all so heavily contrasted with this section, you can’t go back to the rest of the game, in many senses you are trapped in this sprawling maze filled with so many paths, many of which take on far more atmospheric visuals and sounds than what you’d find in the 100 floor section. I found myself experiencing an unmistakable feeling of loneliness traversing through this part, and a lot of that time is spent alone with your own thoughts which is a really powerful experience a game can provide. There’s so much variety as well, largely because structurally this segment is quite different from something like Floor 31. It hops around tilesets a lot, each one having unique gameplay as well, there’s not a whole lot of things that feel like dedicated, proper stages, instead the area is mostly composed of smaller segments that string into each other. This leads to an incredible amount of variety, and it really goes to show just how much effort was put into this. Coming up with so many visuals, matching songs, and gimmicks to build platforming around is incredible and I can only imagine the kind of undertaking it was to fully realize this area in the way the creators imagined it.
I implied it at the end of the last paragraph but if it’s unclear, among all the visual and sonic variety in the section is so much unique gameplay. Some of the gimmicks here were amazing for one, the kid teleporting after a few seconds in water, shooting walls that allow you to walk horizontally or along a diagonal line, repurposing one of the restrictions needed to enter a secret for an entire stage, forced full jumps, there’s a big pool of them that get used and the ones I mentioned really don’t scratch the surface of what’s here. Even more impressive is how they get used. The gameplay implications of swapping between ideas so frequently is that you are basically provided something new on every screen. Nothing will ever overstay its welcome, you get something fresh constantly, something new to dig your teeth into, even saves within the same area are often wildly different. It makes for a really interesting gameplay experience, in some senses it feels like the halfway point structurally between Thank You Thenewgeezer and CN3, however the ideas are a lot more out there I think. In some ways, while the game is known for being somewhat gimmicky, I think CN3 is pretty restrained and most things feel like what your idea of “normal needle” would be. I think in this segment of CN2.5, the gimmicks really stick out more, and it leads to a lot more sections which feel like something completely brand new. This also leads to a very dense section gameplay wise, compared to the rest of the game, basically every save you’ll see here is significant in the sense that it has it’s own learning curve and you’ll probably need to get used to a lot of things within it in order to progress. It would be extremely hard to list all of the gameplay highlights in this part of the game, but it should be noted that this was my favorite part of the whole thing. The fact that it was after the praise I gave those other parts should say a lot in and of itself. If you showed me a screen from this area, chances are I can probably give you a list of things I loved about it. In isolation I think this very well could be the best platforming I’ve ever experienced in my life. It sounds exaggerated but to keep a player engaged like this for over 20 hours without ever missing the mark is a feat that I would be surprised if anything ever matches, at least for me personally.
If you do manage to get to the end of this journey, you’ll find yourself with a shiny Halo at the front of a church atop a mountain. Going inside is essentially the start of the true end-game. The initial tower is fantastic, it’s another very lengthy save which allows you to die once past the halfway point, and it feels great. I’m pretty sure it’s partially based on floor 93 in CN3, much like a few other screens earlier based on CN3 screens. It’s a long gauntlet with a lot of different sections and I love it, I have a soft spot for long saves and this one feels amazing to play. If it truly is based on Floor 93 then I think this is quite an improvement. After this you get a brief intermission which is very mysterious but I really like it, segments like this stick out in your head long after a clear for me and give a game so much staying power. The final save that ensues is a masterpiece, 10 screens utilizing various gimmicks throughout the third chapter of the game, in a mostly random order. Like everything else, it has a heavy learning curve, but figuring out how to manage everything is super satisfying. The screen is filled with more static as you progress, the dark clouds throughout, details like this really make it feel like a climactic ending and such a great encapsulation of what this section was about from a gameplay perspective.
If you get past the final save, what comes next is of course, the ending of the game. Even if it feels eternal, at some point, the grand adventure must close its curtains. But doing so for a game like this seems impossible, how can you just end such a journey? The answer the game provides is in the form of an artistic, avant-garde cutscene, one that I’m personally extremely far from fully grasping. I have no doubts that there’s a lot to it though, at the bare minimum I can appreciate just how beautiful it is, there was a point towards the end where I got a bit emotional, I didn’t tear up or anything but I definitely felt a very powerful emotion inside myself I don’t quite have a grasp on. It’s a beautiful ending, punctuated by how definitive it is. There is nothing to do after it. There is no kid to move around, no feathers to use to experience previous things, nothing. It’s over. After a long journey with so much to it, there is nothing left to do, at least in some senses. There is other stuff that exists to do, but you won’t be doing it on this save file. The main journey is over, and what a journey it was. In spite of how much I’ve said about the game already, I think some things get lost if you examine the sections of the game in isolation, so the end of this review will be dedicated to analyzing the game as a whole, and appreciating things I glossed over initially.
Part 4: Crimson Needle 2.5
The presentation of all of the things provided in this game is out of this world, there is a lot of care put into so many small details throughout the game. An easy example of this is the skins, which can be collected throughout the game. The fact they are unlockable for one is really nice, it encouraged me to want to use more than just my favorites since I grew to appreciate the ones I had earned. Being able to set hotkeys for skins is also great and it’s just one of those things that shows how much care was put into the whole experience of CN2.5. It’s very clear that the development time was spent well, and used to craft a generational experience. In general that experience of just progressing through the game is unlike anything I have ever seen before, especially with how much of it was shrouded in mystery. As the game grows in scope you might begin thinking it would eventually stop surprising you, but every time something new came, it was always a massive surprise that felt like it revolutionized the whole game, and made you see it in an entirely new light. That experience is a large part in what makes CN2.5 such a special game, I’ve never truly seen a game capable of flooring its audience in such a way. It also makes you grow to appreciate the fact that the game is even that big, the amount of content provided here is unlike anything I’ve seen in a fangame before, and it’s all done out of pure passion, it’s not like there’s a monetary incentive. I think in that sense CN2.5 is very much a celebration of what fangames are about, that artistic expression, creating an experience unlike anything you can get elsewhere, reflecting yourself in your own work to making something personal to you, and doing all of this in the shell of a precision platformer. It’s just beautiful to me, the fact it can exist is beautiful, the fact we all get to experience it is something that makes me happy beyond what words can express.
Even after that, the game technically isn’t over. It contains a New Game+ which includes deathless challenges for the main stages and special challenges for guest stages, which is SO cool! These are far from thrown-together additions by the way, they come with things like additional stats and info that show that even a post-game bonus is something that was given serious thought and attention just like the rest. There’s also special secrets in chapter 3 which are currently unsolved, and potentially lead to something. If I complete either of these things I may add an addendum to the review, but they are worth mentioning since it’s more content on top of an already monstrous game.
I don’t think I’ll ever say everything I have to say about Crimson Needle 2.5. This lengthy review only scratches the surface, I hardly went into detail about anything because if I did, I’d probably never finish. When I completed the 100 floor section, I thought the game was amazing. When I completed the guest stages, I thought the game was something truly special. Now, I sit here with the game completed, and I’ve realized what I have played is the kind of masterpiece that only comes around once a decade. You will only ever get to experience something like this a handful of times in your life, at least in a video game. The fact I got to once is something I will forever cherish and appreciate, I would encourage everyone to experience this game. If you can’t play it because of your skill, then work your way up so you can. If you don’t want to do that, then watch the game, either through VODs or an edited video whenever that exists. If you do none of these, you are missing out on something special, and I truly mean that. Everyone involved in this game should feel incredibly proud of themselves, and I thank them all for making this. Thank you for creating something this monumental, and giving the community the privilege of being able to play through it, talk about it, and appreciate it. Crimson Needle 2.5 is a shining beacon of how far the community has come in so many ways, and I adore everything about it. That’s really all there is to say.
The following part of the review was added on September 10th, 2024, when I had completed more of the game. I have completed all the content known to exist in the game, but there may be more. If more content exists, I will do it and if it’s significant, it will be added to the review when it is found and completed.
Part 5: Beyond The Egg
Outside of the main clear there’s two major parts of the game that exist, the first of which is New Game+ which I briefly mentioned, although I hadn’t played it. The more simple part of it is the Golden Cherries, where you go through a full tileset of 3 floors without dying a single time. This segment is not super in-depth, but it’s still neat that it exists. You’d honestly be quite surprised at how well this game works with this concept, since a lot of the silly precision stuff from the original CN2 was either removed or made optional, every golden is reasonable, albeit some are quite challenging. I found that most things in the game got really consistent with time, and each one is kind of its own challenge, with different tilesets having very different difficult balance. It’s definitely time consuming and maybe a little exhausting, but it’s a lot of fun. The rewards for this are pretty minor, making some saves golden and the entirety of floor 0 turning golden if you do them all, but it’s the kind of challenge you do more because you really want to do it, rather than expecting a grand reward. For what the golden cherries are, I think it’s a really fun bonus, although it’s not really the star of the show here.
The goldens alone are pretty cool as a New Game+ addition, but on top of that, each of the 32 guest stages contain a special challenge, and there’s so much variety in these. There’s challenges that are simple, stuff like beat the stage in a low death count, or within a time limit, but others are low save challenges, original saves based on stuff in the stage, buffed versions of boss fights, and more. So many of these have such a unique concept behind them that you are always excited to see what’s coming up. I really want to give them a lot of love because I had so much fun going through them and I believe, at least at this current moment, they’ve gone very underappreciated since a lot of people haven’t even attempted them (albeit not many have reached them yet.) Immediately some of the simple ones stood out because the way they change how you engage with the stage. Plasma’s stage for instance starts as a lengthy gauntlet of a stage, but with time you see how consistent it is and how smoothly you can go through the stage after that initial playthrough. The speedrun challenge is really nothing like the casual playthrough which is kinda a rarity in fangames. Some of the stage buffs are really cool, like Wonderful and LemonGH both have challenges that make significant changes to their stages, like adding gimmicks or cycles, that basically felt like a brand new stage with how different they were, not to mention Lss which has so many changes that fundamentally change how the whole thing plays out. Cherry Treehouse has a buffed version of the first phase of the final boss, it’s so hectic and fast paced that I can’t help but adore it, there’s so many crazy attack combos that exist that force you to get good with the ninja kid mechanics, it’s just awesome. There’s also Lone’s challenge which is a big routing puzzle, trying to figure out how exactly to navigate the area to get all the collectibles, on top of pretty tricky execution to actually clear, I mostly appreciate this challenge for making me really like this stage, when on a first playthrough I didn’t really enjoy it. All the challenges that feature just one save that’s a harder and wackier version of an existing save were amazing, stuff like Anuj, Dress, Qwylwryght, Artimax, etc, I love them all and some might even be some of my favorite saves in the entire game. There’s more challenges that I love but eventually I’d just be listing off every single one in the game, I didn’t even mention Synthasmagoria’s second challenge or Chatran’s, both of which were really cool, the Synthas one especially seeing as it really goes all in on the exploration aspect of the stage. This idea and the way it was executed is one of the coolest things I’ve seen in a fangame, so much effort must have been put into this and it definitely paid off.
If you enter the chapel at some point during New Game+, there’s going to be a warp which leads to a special challenge that opens a door to a room that shows off your collection of medallions that you earn from completing the guest stage challenges. If you have collected all of them, you unlock something that’s been called Floor 100+, but whatever you call it, it’s a buffed version of Floor 100. It’s more akin to a haystack type buff, with almost every section having not just harder jumps, but also increased complexity. It’s really different from the rest of the game, not just in terms of design but difficulty, it definitely fulfills the role of being an “ultimate challenge” type thing. I really love this save, it was a long process to learn and beat but I spent almost all of that time consistently engaged and enjoying myself, there was never really a dull moment because of how interesting the jumps are. It really surprised me how even some of the most simplistic sections often got buffs you wouldn’t expect that radically changed how they played. It’s an amazing save, the best that I’ve played in this difficulty range personally. It also just feels great to clear, everything is so satisfying, super impressive stuff especially when you consider that Kale hasn’t really made anything like it before.
Outside of New Game+ there’s also the secrets in chapter 3 that I mentioned, and these have now been solved by the community. The secrets here are quite a bit more obscure, and definitely harder to solve. Like the first set of secrets, I didn’t solve many myself as it’s not really my thing, but I still have a ton of respect for this element of the game. I think a lot of the puzzle solutions are very clever and I love seeing how everything comes together. The whole section is structured as a journey to get this big machine running that has a bunch of parts, with each puzzle you solve contributing to making a different piece run properly. It’s really neat and it ties together a lot of this third segment, sort of giving justification to some of the weirder things you’d see, not that they needed a reason to exist, but the fact that there is one hidden in plain sight for things like the kid face that turns you into BlockKid is really neat. One of the secrets even leads you to another Crimson fight, one that is really unique. It has some really cool attacks and mechanics that make it play unlike any other crimson really, it feels like it’s own thing in some regards while still having that crimson-shaped base. The ending of the boss is also pretty neat, a tense memory game after the main boss is done. It's a small thing that’s not too hard but it’s still really intense and makes the clear feel like more of a relief when it’s done, it’s just a really cool idea. If you solve all the puzzles and get the machine working, you can get an altered ending when the Kid hops into the egg at the end of the final cutscene, one that leads to a grave for the dog Blue, it’s a beautiful sight to see. This whole sequence is great and I’ve really never seen anything like it before, which honestly can be said for so many things about the game, but the more insane things you see as you play, the more mind-blowing it gets and the more you just have to respect the fact it all exists in the first place.
The final thing I really have to talk about is the replayability of this game. One aspect of doing all the stuff I mentioned is that you’ll inevitably have to replay stuff in the game, it’s part of New Game+ inherently and also the two endings in chapter 3, stuff like this encourages and occasionally requires going through this whole game again, and honestly that’s another aspect of the game that I’ve grown to appreciate. This game has a lot more replayability than you might expect given its length. For one, NG+ lets you skip 7 of the guest stages and still reach the final boss, which is pretty cool, as it means you can either reach chapter 3 a lot sooner if you want to just go through the game quickly, or opt to do all the guest stages again if you don’t really want to skip any. That choice is really nice and on top of that, the platforming is just really fun. Beyond all the spectacle and the crazy unique ideas and the sense of mystery and wonder, Crimson Needle 2.5 is just genuinely an incredibly fun game to play. Even if this is the end of the journey and there’s truly no more content, I’m not done playing the game. I will want to keep coming back for more, the game is just that enjoyable. It’s been fully cemented in my mind that this game is a true masterpiece, one that will have people playing and talking about it for a very long time, and I think that’s incredible.
[38] Likes
Crimson Needle 2.5 is one of the most anticipated fangame releases of all time, it’s an entry in one of the most iconic fangame series of all time, years after its last installment. Even if it was marketed as “CN2 in studio” I think most people had a feeling the game was more than that, how much more was of course, entirely unclear. It’s really hard to break down everything about this game so I’ll split this review into 4 sections. There are massive spoilers throughout this entire review, I would highly recommend playing the game before looking at what I have to say about it.
Part 1: The 100 Floors
This is the most surface level section of the game, it’s the part that realistically was guaranteed to exist. Personally speaking I went into this game with absolutely no expectations so this was really the only thing I was anticipating. It shares a lot of CN2 DNA which is probably not a surprise, but I think it does show a lot about how much Kale has evolved as a maker. It’s no secret that games Kale made post-CN2 were pretty different as in general, gimmicks become a lot more integral to his style. In that regard you can definitely say CN2 is a relatively safe game and likewise this adaptation of it is somewhat reeled in compared to what you may expect if you viewed this game as a CN3 sequel going in. With that being said I think this section does a lot to use what it’s working with as a vessel to create something new, and in that regard it succeeds. A lot of parts, especially early on, are pretty similar to CN2 screens but the further you go I think the more flair is added and at times, some screens are entirely changed to be something far more interesting. One part that especially stood out for instance was 85-87, which is more focused on cycles and stuff and is completely unlike anything in the base game. It was really surprising but super fun. In general the quality of the needle feels much higher, the game just feels nicer to play because there’s many more distinct rooms, neutralizing the weakest point of CN2 for me, which is how much of it blends together. It may be less showy than other needle games or even other parts of this game but it does the job it’s trying to do incredibly well and is some really high quality platforming. I would be remiss to not mention floor 100, the spectacle of this floor is fantastic, the visuals of course are amazing, especially the background, and the needle itself is great. It’s a similar concept to CN3 floor 100 but a bit more explicit in taking from other parts of the game. It does a great job at being a conclusion to this part and the extra life mechanic is a really nice idea for a save this long to prevent it from being too much of a grind, something I think this game in particular benefits from. This section is great, super well put together, demonstrates how someone can evolve as a maker beautifully, and was also less than 8% of my playtime.
Part 2: The Guest Stages
The other three Crimson Needle games are as good as over once floor 100 is, at most there’s some minor bonus things you can do, but nothing significant compared to the scope of the main game. This game provides a first for basically any floor game, where the initial 100 floors are basically just the prologue. Throughout the game you can find some oddities, weird things that stand out, rooms that seem to allude to something, stuff like that. If you look deeper into these things you might eventually find where they lead and uncover a very shocking fact. While the main game is very much a complete game in its own right, in many ways it’s just the foundation for the most insane secret hunt I’ve ever seen in a fangame. The reasons for this are plentiful, one of the biggest being the sheer size of it. Every single stage, marked by the varying tilesets every 3 screens, is home to a secret somewhere, many of which also contain a hint for something, sometimes for an entire other stage. That’s 33 secrets, many of which you’d likely just glaze over on a first play because the way things are hidden is so clever. There’s such a nice variety of secrets, many of which require the player to do a challenge like go through a screen while constantly bonking on ceilings, or always turning around when touching a wall, stuff like this is especially impressive to me because of the way rooms can be designed to be completable with stipulations like this, but still feeling entirely natural to play normally. Some of the solutions are just so cool and clever, and just the process of entering stages feels great when combined with some of the phenomenal transitions between stage and secret, a minor element of the game which still feels like so much soul was put into it. The whole secret hunting part of this game is amazingly well thought out, the community experience of putting things together was something truly special to behold, and this is all just the set up for the meat of this section of the game.
Guest stages inherently are an inconsistent thing in fangames, it’s definitely cool to see a group of makers get together on a game, but often times a guest stage is not that maker’s best work, and I think the key reasoning behind this is the fact that a guest area is just that, an area, a stage. It’s hard for anyone to represent their full creative potential when limited to just a small section of a game, oftentimes entirely separated from the rest of the game. I think the beauty of CN2.5’s guest stages is that instead of fighting this, they embrace it. The guest stages sort of create their own ecosystem within them, where the makers make basically whatever they want, leading to an incredibly diverse array of stages in terms of style, size, and gameplay. A lot of these stages feel like their own games, notable instances of this are things like Chatran, Qwylwryght, Synthasmagoria and of course Cherry Treehouse. These stages contain their own stages within themselves, sometimes their own stories, and very distinct gameplay. It’s honestly amazing to witness, it truly feels as if within this 100 floor game is a bunch of sub-games hidden beneath the surface, leading to an incredibly varied and lengthy experience to play them all. I enjoyed almost all of these stages, but there are definitely ones that were particularly amazing.
Many guest areas are notable because of their extremely high quality platforming, stuff like Kale, TheNaderTwo, LemonGH, RandomErik, TheJPEGDemon, Verve, Zephyr, EchoMask, Chatran, among others contain really clever gimmicks, pathing, things that you’d probably expect from a high quality needle game, just executed to a very high standard. Some like LAWatson or Vormanax stand out because they contain some unique gameplay ideas like a minigame or an avoidance which slowly gets easier as you play. There’s a few guest areas that really resonated with me in particular, not all of them were my absolute favorites but I really respected what they were doing and thought they were extremely impressive. YaBoiMarcAntony and Egg are really awesome needle stages with some really amazing atmospheres. I really enjoy how the audio grows louder or silent throughout the first stage of Marc’s, and the lightning section at the end of Egg’s stage really stood out to me. PlasmaNapkin also has a really cool gimmicky stage based on momentum puzzle platforming, it doesn’t always feel the best to play for me but it has a lot of cool saves and I generally had a good time. Synthasmagoria’s stage is incredibly well put together, it’s one of the most unique things I’ve seen in a fangame and there’s so many incredible set pieces, a great sense of exploration permeates this area and it feels so unnerving and mysterious. Qwylwryght’s stage is truly a treat, unbelievably clever in some places with a great sense of humor while still having a lot of thought-provoking and intriguing moments. The tetris save was a highlight for the entire game for me. Last thing I want to mention is the Cherry Treehouse stage, and I think in many ways it speaks for itself. Out of this world visuals, great gameplay with a modified movement system allowing for some unique platforming and tons of variety with gimmicks, traps, cycles, anything you could ask for, and of course the bosses are awesome to see. I was especially happy to see the crimson bat demon here, but all the bosses were really fun and the final one is just so damn cool. It’s safe to say the guest stages are absolutely incredible, such a diverse maker list and it really feels like everyone brought their A-game to help make this something special.
If you get through all 32 guest stages, you aren’t quite done with this section. There’s the final sequence, a final secret that leads to a mural which transitions to the final boss of the game. The fight is split into two phases, and it’s better than anything I could have ever imagined. The first phase is kind of like an evolution of the crimson style of boss, it’s got the general structure of something like the CN2 final boss, but it contains much more involved mechanics requiring you to develop an understanding of both what is going on and how to handle them. Developing a strategy for this fight was extremely satisfying and it’s got so many cool little things to keep you on your toes and make the fight as fun and interesting as possible. Phase 2 is more straight-forward but is such an amazing “finale.” A five part fight against each of the main crimson demons, ending with a tense face-off against the skull the green demon wears. The animations the demons have are fantastic and give them so much life, especially when combined with attacks that embody their origin. The whole concept of the fight is that as the demons die, they show up in future phases to interfere and support the current one you are fighting, and this is a great idea and leads to some creative moments, especially interactions with yellow’s thunder combined with blue’s water. This fight does an amazing job at concluding things, especially as afterwards you get a truly amazing credits sequence, complete with a great song and really nice art to represent each maker. I also adore the room after the credits, thematically it’s probably in the top 5 rooms in the game for me. I couldn’t really explain why I like it so much, the combination of songs, visuals, and context just create this special energy that I haven’t really seen elsewhere. I wouldn’t really have any other place to mention it so I feel I should here. If the game ended here, I don’t think anyone could possibly complain about that. The game would have already provided way more content than anyone could possibly imagine. The makers have already gone so far beyond what you would expect from a sequel to a series of 100 floor games. This makes the fact that the game is still far from over that much more shocking when you reach this point.
Part 3: Finding Closure
After the second sequence of credits, you get to play the guest stages freely, officially titled the Communion stages. If you enter the menu and look towards the end, there’s one stage you definitely didn’t wouldn’t expect, John 10:9. If you look this phrase up online, you’ll find a bible verse that begins by saying “I am the gate.” In a lot of ways, this chapter is where the game comes into its own gameplay wise. This is not to say the gameplay is bad before this, at this point the game was already amazing, however it feels like the game itself hasn’t gotten the chance to show what it can truly be, unbounded by restrictions of being built off cn2 or guest stage content which inherently is created outside the game. The final section is Crimson Needle 2.5 in its purest form. The stage starts with a reminder of how this journey began in the first place, the dog, Blue, which you’ve been searching for the whole time, and has clearly passed away. At this point the crimson demons are defeated, and as such this is kind of the one unresolved plot point in the game. The first thing I noticed gameplay wise is that this section immediately feels a lot more like Crimson Needle 3, some places very blatantly when you see the nerfed yet extended floor 100. The grand reveal comes a little bit in, when you reach a sanctuary which causes CN3 Floor 31 teleporters to spawn, along with the mind-breaking realization that even after this insane amount of content, there is still so much left to do and see.
The premise of this section is something that would make a fantastic needle game in its own right, being at the end of such a massive adventure is extremely absurd though. It’s similar to Floor 31, but with a greater emphasis on progression throughout, as you can do things that unlock more paths for you to go down. I absolutely love this, there’s very few things in gaming as satisfying as unlocking new areas to go in this labyrinth, a feeling only made more powerful by everything else about the section. For one the atmosphere here is unparalleled, in large part due to how it differs from what’s before it. Sections with more standard, familiar tilesets, guest stages which in some ways make the world feel populated by virtue of having multiple people making the content you play, along with many of them being pretty vibrant (although very far from all), it’s all so heavily contrasted with this section, you can’t go back to the rest of the game, in many senses you are trapped in this sprawling maze filled with so many paths, many of which take on far more atmospheric visuals and sounds than what you’d find in the 100 floor section. I found myself experiencing an unmistakable feeling of loneliness traversing through this part, and a lot of that time is spent alone with your own thoughts which is a really powerful experience a game can provide. There’s so much variety as well, largely because structurally this segment is quite different from something like Floor 31. It hops around tilesets a lot, each one having unique gameplay as well, there’s not a whole lot of things that feel like dedicated, proper stages, instead the area is mostly composed of smaller segments that string into each other. This leads to an incredible amount of variety, and it really goes to show just how much effort was put into this. Coming up with so many visuals, matching songs, and gimmicks to build platforming around is incredible and I can only imagine the kind of undertaking it was to fully realize this area in the way the creators imagined it.
I implied it at the end of the last paragraph but if it’s unclear, among all the visual and sonic variety in the section is so much unique gameplay. Some of the gimmicks here were amazing for one, the kid teleporting after a few seconds in water, shooting walls that allow you to walk horizontally or along a diagonal line, repurposing one of the restrictions needed to enter a secret for an entire stage, forced full jumps, there’s a big pool of them that get used and the ones I mentioned really don’t scratch the surface of what’s here. Even more impressive is how they get used. The gameplay implications of swapping between ideas so frequently is that you are basically provided something new on every screen. Nothing will ever overstay its welcome, you get something fresh constantly, something new to dig your teeth into, even saves within the same area are often wildly different. It makes for a really interesting gameplay experience, in some senses it feels like the halfway point structurally between Thank You Thenewgeezer and CN3, however the ideas are a lot more out there I think. In some ways, while the game is known for being somewhat gimmicky, I think CN3 is pretty restrained and most things feel like what your idea of “normal needle” would be. I think in this segment of CN2.5, the gimmicks really stick out more, and it leads to a lot more sections which feel like something completely brand new. This also leads to a very dense section gameplay wise, compared to the rest of the game, basically every save you’ll see here is significant in the sense that it has it’s own learning curve and you’ll probably need to get used to a lot of things within it in order to progress. It would be extremely hard to list all of the gameplay highlights in this part of the game, but it should be noted that this was my favorite part of the whole thing. The fact that it was after the praise I gave those other parts should say a lot in and of itself. If you showed me a screen from this area, chances are I can probably give you a list of things I loved about it. In isolation I think this very well could be the best platforming I’ve ever experienced in my life. It sounds exaggerated but to keep a player engaged like this for over 20 hours without ever missing the mark is a feat that I would be surprised if anything ever matches, at least for me personally.
If you do manage to get to the end of this journey, you’ll find yourself with a shiny Halo at the front of a church atop a mountain. Going inside is essentially the start of the true end-game. The initial tower is fantastic, it’s another very lengthy save which allows you to die once past the halfway point, and it feels great. I’m pretty sure it’s partially based on floor 93 in CN3, much like a few other screens earlier based on CN3 screens. It’s a long gauntlet with a lot of different sections and I love it, I have a soft spot for long saves and this one feels amazing to play. If it truly is based on Floor 93 then I think this is quite an improvement. After this you get a brief intermission which is very mysterious but I really like it, segments like this stick out in your head long after a clear for me and give a game so much staying power. The final save that ensues is a masterpiece, 10 screens utilizing various gimmicks throughout the third chapter of the game, in a mostly random order. Like everything else, it has a heavy learning curve, but figuring out how to manage everything is super satisfying. The screen is filled with more static as you progress, the dark clouds throughout, details like this really make it feel like a climactic ending and such a great encapsulation of what this section was about from a gameplay perspective.
If you get past the final save, what comes next is of course, the ending of the game. Even if it feels eternal, at some point, the grand adventure must close its curtains. But doing so for a game like this seems impossible, how can you just end such a journey? The answer the game provides is in the form of an artistic, avant-garde cutscene, one that I’m personally extremely far from fully grasping. I have no doubts that there’s a lot to it though, at the bare minimum I can appreciate just how beautiful it is, there was a point towards the end where I got a bit emotional, I didn’t tear up or anything but I definitely felt a very powerful emotion inside myself I don’t quite have a grasp on. It’s a beautiful ending, punctuated by how definitive it is. There is nothing to do after it. There is no kid to move around, no feathers to use to experience previous things, nothing. It’s over. After a long journey with so much to it, there is nothing left to do, at least in some senses. There is other stuff that exists to do, but you won’t be doing it on this save file. The main journey is over, and what a journey it was. In spite of how much I’ve said about the game already, I think some things get lost if you examine the sections of the game in isolation, so the end of this review will be dedicated to analyzing the game as a whole, and appreciating things I glossed over initially.
Part 4: Crimson Needle 2.5
The presentation of all of the things provided in this game is out of this world, there is a lot of care put into so many small details throughout the game. An easy example of this is the skins, which can be collected throughout the game. The fact they are unlockable for one is really nice, it encouraged me to want to use more than just my favorites since I grew to appreciate the ones I had earned. Being able to set hotkeys for skins is also great and it’s just one of those things that shows how much care was put into the whole experience of CN2.5. It’s very clear that the development time was spent well, and used to craft a generational experience. In general that experience of just progressing through the game is unlike anything I have ever seen before, especially with how much of it was shrouded in mystery. As the game grows in scope you might begin thinking it would eventually stop surprising you, but every time something new came, it was always a massive surprise that felt like it revolutionized the whole game, and made you see it in an entirely new light. That experience is a large part in what makes CN2.5 such a special game, I’ve never truly seen a game capable of flooring its audience in such a way. It also makes you grow to appreciate the fact that the game is even that big, the amount of content provided here is unlike anything I’ve seen in a fangame before, and it’s all done out of pure passion, it’s not like there’s a monetary incentive. I think in that sense CN2.5 is very much a celebration of what fangames are about, that artistic expression, creating an experience unlike anything you can get elsewhere, reflecting yourself in your own work to making something personal to you, and doing all of this in the shell of a precision platformer. It’s just beautiful to me, the fact it can exist is beautiful, the fact we all get to experience it is something that makes me happy beyond what words can express.
Even after that, the game technically isn’t over. It contains a New Game+ which includes deathless challenges for the main stages and special challenges for guest stages, which is SO cool! These are far from thrown-together additions by the way, they come with things like additional stats and info that show that even a post-game bonus is something that was given serious thought and attention just like the rest. There’s also special secrets in chapter 3 which are currently unsolved, and potentially lead to something. If I complete either of these things I may add an addendum to the review, but they are worth mentioning since it’s more content on top of an already monstrous game.
I don’t think I’ll ever say everything I have to say about Crimson Needle 2.5. This lengthy review only scratches the surface, I hardly went into detail about anything because if I did, I’d probably never finish. When I completed the 100 floor section, I thought the game was amazing. When I completed the guest stages, I thought the game was something truly special. Now, I sit here with the game completed, and I’ve realized what I have played is the kind of masterpiece that only comes around once a decade. You will only ever get to experience something like this a handful of times in your life, at least in a video game. The fact I got to once is something I will forever cherish and appreciate, I would encourage everyone to experience this game. If you can’t play it because of your skill, then work your way up so you can. If you don’t want to do that, then watch the game, either through VODs or an edited video whenever that exists. If you do none of these, you are missing out on something special, and I truly mean that. Everyone involved in this game should feel incredibly proud of themselves, and I thank them all for making this. Thank you for creating something this monumental, and giving the community the privilege of being able to play through it, talk about it, and appreciate it. Crimson Needle 2.5 is a shining beacon of how far the community has come in so many ways, and I adore everything about it. That’s really all there is to say.
The following part of the review was added on September 10th, 2024, when I had completed more of the game. I have completed all the content known to exist in the game, but there may be more. If more content exists, I will do it and if it’s significant, it will be added to the review when it is found and completed.
Part 5: Beyond The Egg
Outside of the main clear there’s two major parts of the game that exist, the first of which is New Game+ which I briefly mentioned, although I hadn’t played it. The more simple part of it is the Golden Cherries, where you go through a full tileset of 3 floors without dying a single time. This segment is not super in-depth, but it’s still neat that it exists. You’d honestly be quite surprised at how well this game works with this concept, since a lot of the silly precision stuff from the original CN2 was either removed or made optional, every golden is reasonable, albeit some are quite challenging. I found that most things in the game got really consistent with time, and each one is kind of its own challenge, with different tilesets having very different difficult balance. It’s definitely time consuming and maybe a little exhausting, but it’s a lot of fun. The rewards for this are pretty minor, making some saves golden and the entirety of floor 0 turning golden if you do them all, but it’s the kind of challenge you do more because you really want to do it, rather than expecting a grand reward. For what the golden cherries are, I think it’s a really fun bonus, although it’s not really the star of the show here.
The goldens alone are pretty cool as a New Game+ addition, but on top of that, each of the 32 guest stages contain a special challenge, and there’s so much variety in these. There’s challenges that are simple, stuff like beat the stage in a low death count, or within a time limit, but others are low save challenges, original saves based on stuff in the stage, buffed versions of boss fights, and more. So many of these have such a unique concept behind them that you are always excited to see what’s coming up. I really want to give them a lot of love because I had so much fun going through them and I believe, at least at this current moment, they’ve gone very underappreciated since a lot of people haven’t even attempted them (albeit not many have reached them yet.) Immediately some of the simple ones stood out because the way they change how you engage with the stage. Plasma’s stage for instance starts as a lengthy gauntlet of a stage, but with time you see how consistent it is and how smoothly you can go through the stage after that initial playthrough. The speedrun challenge is really nothing like the casual playthrough which is kinda a rarity in fangames. Some of the stage buffs are really cool, like Wonderful and LemonGH both have challenges that make significant changes to their stages, like adding gimmicks or cycles, that basically felt like a brand new stage with how different they were, not to mention Lss which has so many changes that fundamentally change how the whole thing plays out. Cherry Treehouse has a buffed version of the first phase of the final boss, it’s so hectic and fast paced that I can’t help but adore it, there’s so many crazy attack combos that exist that force you to get good with the ninja kid mechanics, it’s just awesome. There’s also Lone’s challenge which is a big routing puzzle, trying to figure out how exactly to navigate the area to get all the collectibles, on top of pretty tricky execution to actually clear, I mostly appreciate this challenge for making me really like this stage, when on a first playthrough I didn’t really enjoy it. All the challenges that feature just one save that’s a harder and wackier version of an existing save were amazing, stuff like Anuj, Dress, Qwylwryght, Artimax, etc, I love them all and some might even be some of my favorite saves in the entire game. There’s more challenges that I love but eventually I’d just be listing off every single one in the game, I didn’t even mention Synthasmagoria’s second challenge or Chatran’s, both of which were really cool, the Synthas one especially seeing as it really goes all in on the exploration aspect of the stage. This idea and the way it was executed is one of the coolest things I’ve seen in a fangame, so much effort must have been put into this and it definitely paid off.
If you enter the chapel at some point during New Game+, there’s going to be a warp which leads to a special challenge that opens a door to a room that shows off your collection of medallions that you earn from completing the guest stage challenges. If you have collected all of them, you unlock something that’s been called Floor 100+, but whatever you call it, it’s a buffed version of Floor 100. It’s more akin to a haystack type buff, with almost every section having not just harder jumps, but also increased complexity. It’s really different from the rest of the game, not just in terms of design but difficulty, it definitely fulfills the role of being an “ultimate challenge” type thing. I really love this save, it was a long process to learn and beat but I spent almost all of that time consistently engaged and enjoying myself, there was never really a dull moment because of how interesting the jumps are. It really surprised me how even some of the most simplistic sections often got buffs you wouldn’t expect that radically changed how they played. It’s an amazing save, the best that I’ve played in this difficulty range personally. It also just feels great to clear, everything is so satisfying, super impressive stuff especially when you consider that Kale hasn’t really made anything like it before.
Outside of New Game+ there’s also the secrets in chapter 3 that I mentioned, and these have now been solved by the community. The secrets here are quite a bit more obscure, and definitely harder to solve. Like the first set of secrets, I didn’t solve many myself as it’s not really my thing, but I still have a ton of respect for this element of the game. I think a lot of the puzzle solutions are very clever and I love seeing how everything comes together. The whole section is structured as a journey to get this big machine running that has a bunch of parts, with each puzzle you solve contributing to making a different piece run properly. It’s really neat and it ties together a lot of this third segment, sort of giving justification to some of the weirder things you’d see, not that they needed a reason to exist, but the fact that there is one hidden in plain sight for things like the kid face that turns you into BlockKid is really neat. One of the secrets even leads you to another Crimson fight, one that is really unique. It has some really cool attacks and mechanics that make it play unlike any other crimson really, it feels like it’s own thing in some regards while still having that crimson-shaped base. The ending of the boss is also pretty neat, a tense memory game after the main boss is done. It's a small thing that’s not too hard but it’s still really intense and makes the clear feel like more of a relief when it’s done, it’s just a really cool idea. If you solve all the puzzles and get the machine working, you can get an altered ending when the Kid hops into the egg at the end of the final cutscene, one that leads to a grave for the dog Blue, it’s a beautiful sight to see. This whole sequence is great and I’ve really never seen anything like it before, which honestly can be said for so many things about the game, but the more insane things you see as you play, the more mind-blowing it gets and the more you just have to respect the fact it all exists in the first place.
The final thing I really have to talk about is the replayability of this game. One aspect of doing all the stuff I mentioned is that you’ll inevitably have to replay stuff in the game, it’s part of New Game+ inherently and also the two endings in chapter 3, stuff like this encourages and occasionally requires going through this whole game again, and honestly that’s another aspect of the game that I’ve grown to appreciate. This game has a lot more replayability than you might expect given its length. For one, NG+ lets you skip 7 of the guest stages and still reach the final boss, which is pretty cool, as it means you can either reach chapter 3 a lot sooner if you want to just go through the game quickly, or opt to do all the guest stages again if you don’t really want to skip any. That choice is really nice and on top of that, the platforming is just really fun. Beyond all the spectacle and the crazy unique ideas and the sense of mystery and wonder, Crimson Needle 2.5 is just genuinely an incredibly fun game to play. Even if this is the end of the journey and there’s truly no more content, I’m not done playing the game. I will want to keep coming back for more, the game is just that enjoyable. It’s been fully cemented in my mind that this game is a true masterpiece, one that will have people playing and talking about it for a very long time, and I think that’s incredible.
Rating: 10.0 100
Difficulty: 94 94
Aug 3, 2024
Natsu
One of the best fangames ever made, a complete masterpiece showing the absolute wonders of I Wanna Be The Guy fangames and how far we've come from a game that was often on the outside considered just rage streamerbait from 2007. We all saw more in it than that, and we all kept making and playing, leading to this moment. Genuinely a very emotional experience, a true work of art full of heart and soul, and astonishing amounts of sincere care and thoughtfulness. You can't find an experience like this anywhere else.
This came at a time we really needed it
This came at a time we really needed it
Tagged as: Masterpiece
[23] Likes
Rating: 10.0 100
Difficulty: N/A
Jul 30, 2024
fruityberry
how to download?!?!?!??!!
Tagged as: Needle
[21] Likes
Rating: N/A
Difficulty: N/A
Jul 27, 2024
Nick24
The difficulty rating is final and is based on third ending. As someone who scales using average segment difficulty and game length, CN2.5 combo confidently hits the spot for my hardest clear. It's really funny how that happens, since there's not a single save in the game harder than CN3 floor 100, but it's long and consistently hard, with the difficulty curve getting close to that point every so often. Yeah I guess I'm that kind of guy who thinks 20 85 difficulty saves are harder than 1 90 difficulty one. Hard games are all about how dedicated you are anyways.
While being close to being done with the game, I got into heated discussion about me slandering the game for being too difficult. I agree that my opponent made some valid points, so check this out: I'm locking the quality rating to 9/10! While I'm going to steal only 1 tiny point for difficulty reasons (there in fact exists a fangame which only benefitted from accessibilty imo), I have to agree that the amount of content and effort put into this game is phenomenal. It's also creative enough to test basically every skill imagineable. I think works like these have to be admired, it's common sense. I hope the number isn't offensive and is high enough to make sense now. The game definitely won the sisyphus award for me. And it's not like the rating is set in stone, maybe it can get much higher once the difficulty starts to settle in for me. It's a long process though. Also the feeling of being done and having nothing left is incredible, the endgame somehow culminated into amazing feelings, I'll give half a point for that.
The review parts below contain my unfiltered thoughts however, so proceed with caution.
As far as main game goes, it tries to remove all the bad moments from the original, like some random generic jumps, some awful ending jumps, replace the floor entirely, remove intermissions, etc. I think the creator did a good job with the changes. That said, the difficulty skyrockets once you reach floor 85, and keeps on being harder than the original for a decent amount of the remaining floors. The game feels more like CN2 WARPED rather than 2.5 at this point. Though I guess it's fine because floor 100 literally allows you to take a hit halfway in, which makes this floor the one I had the least problems with in the series (not including cn1 ofcourse), especially because all the jumps on this floor felt somewhat consistent (sometimes even nerfed compared to original segment for that goal) compared to other floor 100s: original cn2 had some really uncomfortable jumps near the end, and for cn3 mentioning the 16px-into-diagonal drop near the end alone is enough.
Any% is solid 8/10.
That said, beating all 100 floors is like 10% of content the game has to offer. There's A LOT of extra stuff to do, but despite there being a lot of cool extra areas, there are some which were a complete miss for me. That's granted to happen when you have a lot of content in a game, and it had a bit of impact on my rating. As far as secret bosses go, they were proven to be a lot more controversial than original CN2 crimson. Being just a needle player isn't enough anymore, sadly, despite it being a game about needle.
After secret hunting, I feel like I should review all secret areas in a tier list fashion, maybe it will make your choice easier.
Kale (F3)
It had a really cool fast-paced gimmick. All saves were fun till the rng skulls one... B.
Cutemia (F6)
Easy platforming with a gimmick, a lot of fun and chill to execute, that's an A.
LAWatson (F8)
Yet again with the patience-requiring shooting boss. Though it feels like he held back with the difficulty on this one, so it's not that bad, B.
Gwiz609 (F11)
4 different cycle-based screens, followed by an eclipse gimmick. Short and fun - A.
Thenadertwo (F14)
Fun needle, goes in A.
Ubersawmedic (F18)
Fully optional, so I'm not ranking this one. Personally I'm not a fan of golden room.
Wonderful (F19)
Surprisingly nothing special or memorable, but it's short so okay, B.
Lss (F24)
Literally the best secret in the game, the only one which will go in the S class.
Lemongh (F25)
Short area with various gimmicks, nothing special, B.
Wolfiexe (F30)
Fun needle. The 4 towers idea is interesting, A.
Anxkha (F32)
Reminds me of RO a lot, a rukito-like. Cool, A.
pieceofcheese87 (F36)
Well, it finally happened: a miss. The restrictions which come from gimmicks are rough, mobs take ages to kill, and the traps are really damn cruel. I glitched the freaking golem's head out of bounds, and the bee screen is just awful. This area really sucked, but it's far from being the worst, D.
cherry treehouse (F39)
I have beaten this one, and I really felt the need to vent out my feelings. Damn it sucks massively. As always, The Team just throws in AAA games-tier production value, only to throw it off the rails with really awful gameplay. If you want to make sure that you can beat CN2.5 100%, playing this one will tell if you have what it takes. However if you want to have fun or reasonable-length area, ignore this one at all costs. On top of that, this area just feels harder than ANY other stage in the game I've seen, 100 is a joke compared to how messed up this is. I was one of the people who really struggled with final boss, what makes me ask the question: why the hell would you make a balls hard BOSS in a game about NEEDLE??? Truly nasrano-worthy. Unrelated, but the area is probably fun if you're celeste grandmaster, and I haven't even played that. So let's sum this area up:
1. The stage lasts an eternity.
2. Platforming feels like I'm playing celeste rather than a fangame, it forces you to keep being airborne way too many times. There's literally no landing breaks, only wallhugs in the best case. The amount of learning coming out of that is enormous, especially with all the timing-based obstacles in mind. I have beaten freaking wooden king, and I'm still talking about airborne, let that sink in.
3. Except for boss 2, the other 2 feel like "survive this 1 attack for the entire duration of a boss". The entire "you can only use sword" idea also makes me feel like I'm handicapped and can't reach anything.
4. Final boss is stupidly hard. I've heard CN2 last boss comparison, and I think it's probably right. Also the amount of combinations you can roll make it feel like I'm playing Z3 final boss all over again, topping it of with surviving the death attack of every boss at the same time, just like PDplayer! Then there's a second phase with a different boss, which just feels like mindless luck grind to me, no skill involved.
It's only up from here, F.
RandomErik (F41)
After the depths of hell (F39), I forgot how great it feels to play a sane needle stage... Thank god I get to experience only sane stuff from now on, A.
Chapel (F45)
Technically not a stage, so no rating.
Kady (F46)
It feels really easy to miss a bunnyhop, but other than that, a solid B.
Thejpegdemon (F51)
Not a fan of platform jump spam, C.
Vormanax (F53)
Reminds me of cubism a lot. A while back I used to joke about avoidance scaling with your skill, now it's not a joke anymore. Ahof players will still clear in 5 minutes probably, B.
Synthasmagoria (F55)
Big, weird and somewhat of sudoku area. A lot of timings, but the saves are short so it's fine. Getting the wrench was a bruh moment though, B.
Anuj071 (F60)
Interesting stuff, but cycles don't sync well, B.
Verve (F61)
Had 1 save which is way too long, but apparently that was me missing a save somehow? Still B though.
Zephyr (F65)
Fine needle with wrap gimmick, B.
Artimax (F68)
You might've already guessed it but I'm not a fan of movement-restricting gimmicks, C.
Marc Antony (F70)
This is what I expected wonderful area to be like, A.
Plasmanapkin (F74)
It's very hard, but you know what? It's only you and platforming, no bosses or any other nonsense. Each save feels like half of wooden king, but gets very consistent. Though, as I said before, bunnyhoping is hard, B.
Egg (F77)
Bouncing rng platforms were a pain in the ass, B.
Qwylryght (F80)
Imaging having to learn how to play tetris because of a secret in a game. I did fine, but I can see how it can be a big problem for others, C.
Skulldude (F83)
Fun gimmick needle for 5 screens. Short and consistent, also based for having no platform jumps, A.
Echomask (F87)
Basically Crimson Needle 3 WARPED. The saves are really damn long, B.
Lone (F89)
When your area is just 1 really long needle screen, all I can say is - why? Why would you do that? Not to mention, no matter where you start the save, some jumps are just a chokefest. The costs are also ridiculous, literally a screen made by EA. If you thought this review only slandered bad adventures, here comes pure needle, D.
Dress (F92)
First stage was cool, and the rest was nothing special, B.
Chatran (F95)
A lot of cool key gimmicks, relatively long, but nothing scary, A.
Patrick (F99)
I heard this one was good, so I went here after a rough secret, and had a blast playing it. The author really just came up with 16 gimmicks, then told the player to break cn2.5 main game. I already have Lss as the best secret, but this one follow it right behind as a favorite, so check this out: A+ !
Aaaaaand... it was all of them! Definitely a giant mixed bag, with extremes on both spectrums of enjoyment, which is why I think it's the weakest part when it comes to average rating, only a 7/10. Please note that these secret area ratings are based on my first impressions, so they are very picky, especially with not needle stuff involved. It may be hard to impress me, but I might find a lot of these areas more fun if I replayed them now that I know how everything works. Maybe I'll do that later, but don't count on it.
But before finishing the rating for this part, we have to talk about final boss. I thought about dividing ratings for it and secrets, but now I think I'll just rate the full part, just like game intended. Final boss is divided into 2 phases. First phase is absolutely trivialized once you come up with a strat. Second phase on the other hand... is really damn scary... but... it has to be this way? I guess? Beating the phase in 15 minutes on one of the sessions definitely means it gets consistent, kind of? The dodges sure don't look like it though.
With THAT included in the rating for this part, I think it actually gives more spice to it, I'll give a point. 7+1/10. The overall rating is back at 8/10. And I think it's only going to get higher from here.
Welcome to part 3, John.
I enjoyed most of this area. Sadly, the author went above and beyond with difficulty for some saves, it literally feels like there's 10 floor 100s in there. Moments like these is the main reason I don't want to give a higher rating. However, I was having fun with the rest of the saves, which is an overwhelming majority in this case. That's why I'll give this part a 9/10. I have finished this part, and I can confidently say it doesn't get harder than those few hard moments, except for final save culmination ofcourse, which is totally fine.
That said, I really wish the author could've held back with difficulty just a little bit. Yeah I get it, I'm still taking less time than it took creator to make the save, appreciate the effort etc. But would it really hurt that much to split like 5% of the saves into 2? In the long run, I'd rather not be stuck for an hour an a save when having a save inbetween could've made it 15 minutes. I wouldn't be surprised if these saves combined took me more than the rest. I guess I just got demoralized seeing all those robot 80 hour cleartimes, while I realized that this part of the game is gonna take me half of their playtime by itself. Gatekeeping the difficulty to appreciate the effort is the main reason I refuse to raise the rating of this part to 10. It's just a bad excuse, considering how robots already just destroyed whatever content was there with their inhuman pace anyways. And it will only continue to be this way... It's still all needle though, so I'm definitely not lowering my rating for this part, on the good side. You can't be mad when you get what you asked for. An alternate ending to this part was found which requires some leehe puzzle shenanigans, but both endings culminate with the same final save and a softlock, so kinda whatever.
The talk about robots leads me to the next part of this review. Rest assured, I'm NEVER beating this one and it won't affect my rating, so it's just me ranting. Yep, I'm talking about ng+.
This part perfectly portrays everything wrong with modern difficulty standarts. Starting with uncreative stat challenges for some guest areas, and ending with goldens... This is literally K3 akbar, but as long as it doesn't unlock anything siginificant, ignoring is the best choice either way, unless you're the best player the world has ever seen, which is the worst kind of gatekeep. Having true 100% being unbeatable for mortals is awful, I hope dotkid savefile will happen after it so we can all enjoy the entire game. I came here for Lss stage challenge anyways, since I liked that area, and it got an actual rework, wish that was true for all the stuff.
I really wish there was a more accessible difficulty mod for this game, but I understand perfectly well that modding 1.8gb game is an unreasonable task, and maybe a savefile with dotkid will be enough. I think it's gonna take me like 5 years for the difficulty of this game to sink in and not criticize it, kinda like what happened with cn3 to me.
[16] Likes
While being close to being done with the game, I got into heated discussion about me slandering the game for being too difficult. I agree that my opponent made some valid points, so check this out: I'm locking the quality rating to 9/10! While I'm going to steal only 1 tiny point for difficulty reasons (there in fact exists a fangame which only benefitted from accessibilty imo), I have to agree that the amount of content and effort put into this game is phenomenal. It's also creative enough to test basically every skill imagineable. I think works like these have to be admired, it's common sense. I hope the number isn't offensive and is high enough to make sense now. The game definitely won the sisyphus award for me. And it's not like the rating is set in stone, maybe it can get much higher once the difficulty starts to settle in for me. It's a long process though. Also the feeling of being done and having nothing left is incredible, the endgame somehow culminated into amazing feelings, I'll give half a point for that.
The review parts below contain my unfiltered thoughts however, so proceed with caution.
As far as main game goes, it tries to remove all the bad moments from the original, like some random generic jumps, some awful ending jumps, replace the floor entirely, remove intermissions, etc. I think the creator did a good job with the changes. That said, the difficulty skyrockets once you reach floor 85, and keeps on being harder than the original for a decent amount of the remaining floors. The game feels more like CN2 WARPED rather than 2.5 at this point. Though I guess it's fine because floor 100 literally allows you to take a hit halfway in, which makes this floor the one I had the least problems with in the series (not including cn1 ofcourse), especially because all the jumps on this floor felt somewhat consistent (sometimes even nerfed compared to original segment for that goal) compared to other floor 100s: original cn2 had some really uncomfortable jumps near the end, and for cn3 mentioning the 16px-into-diagonal drop near the end alone is enough.
Any% is solid 8/10.
That said, beating all 100 floors is like 10% of content the game has to offer. There's A LOT of extra stuff to do, but despite there being a lot of cool extra areas, there are some which were a complete miss for me. That's granted to happen when you have a lot of content in a game, and it had a bit of impact on my rating. As far as secret bosses go, they were proven to be a lot more controversial than original CN2 crimson. Being just a needle player isn't enough anymore, sadly, despite it being a game about needle.
After secret hunting, I feel like I should review all secret areas in a tier list fashion, maybe it will make your choice easier.
Kale (F3)
It had a really cool fast-paced gimmick. All saves were fun till the rng skulls one... B.
Cutemia (F6)
Easy platforming with a gimmick, a lot of fun and chill to execute, that's an A.
LAWatson (F8)
Yet again with the patience-requiring shooting boss. Though it feels like he held back with the difficulty on this one, so it's not that bad, B.
Gwiz609 (F11)
4 different cycle-based screens, followed by an eclipse gimmick. Short and fun - A.
Thenadertwo (F14)
Fun needle, goes in A.
Ubersawmedic (F18)
Fully optional, so I'm not ranking this one. Personally I'm not a fan of golden room.
Wonderful (F19)
Surprisingly nothing special or memorable, but it's short so okay, B.
Lss (F24)
Literally the best secret in the game, the only one which will go in the S class.
Lemongh (F25)
Short area with various gimmicks, nothing special, B.
Wolfiexe (F30)
Fun needle. The 4 towers idea is interesting, A.
Anxkha (F32)
Reminds me of RO a lot, a rukito-like. Cool, A.
pieceofcheese87 (F36)
Well, it finally happened: a miss. The restrictions which come from gimmicks are rough, mobs take ages to kill, and the traps are really damn cruel. I glitched the freaking golem's head out of bounds, and the bee screen is just awful. This area really sucked, but it's far from being the worst, D.
cherry treehouse (F39)
I have beaten this one, and I really felt the need to vent out my feelings. Damn it sucks massively. As always, The Team just throws in AAA games-tier production value, only to throw it off the rails with really awful gameplay. If you want to make sure that you can beat CN2.5 100%, playing this one will tell if you have what it takes. However if you want to have fun or reasonable-length area, ignore this one at all costs. On top of that, this area just feels harder than ANY other stage in the game I've seen, 100 is a joke compared to how messed up this is. I was one of the people who really struggled with final boss, what makes me ask the question: why the hell would you make a balls hard BOSS in a game about NEEDLE??? Truly nasrano-worthy. Unrelated, but the area is probably fun if you're celeste grandmaster, and I haven't even played that. So let's sum this area up:
1. The stage lasts an eternity.
2. Platforming feels like I'm playing celeste rather than a fangame, it forces you to keep being airborne way too many times. There's literally no landing breaks, only wallhugs in the best case. The amount of learning coming out of that is enormous, especially with all the timing-based obstacles in mind. I have beaten freaking wooden king, and I'm still talking about airborne, let that sink in.
3. Except for boss 2, the other 2 feel like "survive this 1 attack for the entire duration of a boss". The entire "you can only use sword" idea also makes me feel like I'm handicapped and can't reach anything.
4. Final boss is stupidly hard. I've heard CN2 last boss comparison, and I think it's probably right. Also the amount of combinations you can roll make it feel like I'm playing Z3 final boss all over again, topping it of with surviving the death attack of every boss at the same time, just like PDplayer! Then there's a second phase with a different boss, which just feels like mindless luck grind to me, no skill involved.
It's only up from here, F.
RandomErik (F41)
After the depths of hell (F39), I forgot how great it feels to play a sane needle stage... Thank god I get to experience only sane stuff from now on, A.
Chapel (F45)
Technically not a stage, so no rating.
Kady (F46)
It feels really easy to miss a bunnyhop, but other than that, a solid B.
Thejpegdemon (F51)
Not a fan of platform jump spam, C.
Vormanax (F53)
Reminds me of cubism a lot. A while back I used to joke about avoidance scaling with your skill, now it's not a joke anymore. Ahof players will still clear in 5 minutes probably, B.
Synthasmagoria (F55)
Big, weird and somewhat of sudoku area. A lot of timings, but the saves are short so it's fine. Getting the wrench was a bruh moment though, B.
Anuj071 (F60)
Interesting stuff, but cycles don't sync well, B.
Verve (F61)
Had 1 save which is way too long, but apparently that was me missing a save somehow? Still B though.
Zephyr (F65)
Fine needle with wrap gimmick, B.
Artimax (F68)
You might've already guessed it but I'm not a fan of movement-restricting gimmicks, C.
Marc Antony (F70)
This is what I expected wonderful area to be like, A.
Plasmanapkin (F74)
It's very hard, but you know what? It's only you and platforming, no bosses or any other nonsense. Each save feels like half of wooden king, but gets very consistent. Though, as I said before, bunnyhoping is hard, B.
Egg (F77)
Bouncing rng platforms were a pain in the ass, B.
Qwylryght (F80)
Imaging having to learn how to play tetris because of a secret in a game. I did fine, but I can see how it can be a big problem for others, C.
Skulldude (F83)
Fun gimmick needle for 5 screens. Short and consistent, also based for having no platform jumps, A.
Echomask (F87)
Basically Crimson Needle 3 WARPED. The saves are really damn long, B.
Lone (F89)
When your area is just 1 really long needle screen, all I can say is - why? Why would you do that? Not to mention, no matter where you start the save, some jumps are just a chokefest. The costs are also ridiculous, literally a screen made by EA. If you thought this review only slandered bad adventures, here comes pure needle, D.
Dress (F92)
First stage was cool, and the rest was nothing special, B.
Chatran (F95)
A lot of cool key gimmicks, relatively long, but nothing scary, A.
Patrick (F99)
I heard this one was good, so I went here after a rough secret, and had a blast playing it. The author really just came up with 16 gimmicks, then told the player to break cn2.5 main game. I already have Lss as the best secret, but this one follow it right behind as a favorite, so check this out: A+ !
Aaaaaand... it was all of them! Definitely a giant mixed bag, with extremes on both spectrums of enjoyment, which is why I think it's the weakest part when it comes to average rating, only a 7/10. Please note that these secret area ratings are based on my first impressions, so they are very picky, especially with not needle stuff involved. It may be hard to impress me, but I might find a lot of these areas more fun if I replayed them now that I know how everything works. Maybe I'll do that later, but don't count on it.
But before finishing the rating for this part, we have to talk about final boss. I thought about dividing ratings for it and secrets, but now I think I'll just rate the full part, just like game intended. Final boss is divided into 2 phases. First phase is absolutely trivialized once you come up with a strat. Second phase on the other hand... is really damn scary... but... it has to be this way? I guess? Beating the phase in 15 minutes on one of the sessions definitely means it gets consistent, kind of? The dodges sure don't look like it though.
With THAT included in the rating for this part, I think it actually gives more spice to it, I'll give a point. 7+1/10. The overall rating is back at 8/10. And I think it's only going to get higher from here.
Welcome to part 3, John.
I enjoyed most of this area. Sadly, the author went above and beyond with difficulty for some saves, it literally feels like there's 10 floor 100s in there. Moments like these is the main reason I don't want to give a higher rating. However, I was having fun with the rest of the saves, which is an overwhelming majority in this case. That's why I'll give this part a 9/10. I have finished this part, and I can confidently say it doesn't get harder than those few hard moments, except for final save culmination ofcourse, which is totally fine.
That said, I really wish the author could've held back with difficulty just a little bit. Yeah I get it, I'm still taking less time than it took creator to make the save, appreciate the effort etc. But would it really hurt that much to split like 5% of the saves into 2? In the long run, I'd rather not be stuck for an hour an a save when having a save inbetween could've made it 15 minutes. I wouldn't be surprised if these saves combined took me more than the rest. I guess I just got demoralized seeing all those robot 80 hour cleartimes, while I realized that this part of the game is gonna take me half of their playtime by itself. Gatekeeping the difficulty to appreciate the effort is the main reason I refuse to raise the rating of this part to 10. It's just a bad excuse, considering how robots already just destroyed whatever content was there with their inhuman pace anyways. And it will only continue to be this way... It's still all needle though, so I'm definitely not lowering my rating for this part, on the good side. You can't be mad when you get what you asked for. An alternate ending to this part was found which requires some leehe puzzle shenanigans, but both endings culminate with the same final save and a softlock, so kinda whatever.
The talk about robots leads me to the next part of this review. Rest assured, I'm NEVER beating this one and it won't affect my rating, so it's just me ranting. Yep, I'm talking about ng+.
This part perfectly portrays everything wrong with modern difficulty standarts. Starting with uncreative stat challenges for some guest areas, and ending with goldens... This is literally K3 akbar, but as long as it doesn't unlock anything siginificant, ignoring is the best choice either way, unless you're the best player the world has ever seen, which is the worst kind of gatekeep. Having true 100% being unbeatable for mortals is awful, I hope dotkid savefile will happen after it so we can all enjoy the entire game. I came here for Lss stage challenge anyways, since I liked that area, and it got an actual rework, wish that was true for all the stuff.
I really wish there was a more accessible difficulty mod for this game, but I understand perfectly well that modding 1.8gb game is an unreasonable task, and maybe a savefile with dotkid will be enough. I think it's gonna take me like 5 years for the difficulty of this game to sink in and not criticize it, kinda like what happened with cn3 to me.
Rating: 9.5 95
Difficulty: 96 96
Jul 30, 2024